Moving to Thailand: Steve, Thailand Musings

It has been a while since I ran a couple of interviews on aspiring expats and their plans to move out to Thailand.

I featured Talen and Martin, two very prominent bloggers and after a long delay, mainly, nay, entirely down to me, next up to the plate is Steve from Thailand Musings.

So without further ado...here's Steve...

You are living in the USA at present but with aspirations of moving to Thailand. What is it that makes you want to move to Thailand?

I’ve been fascinated with Thailand since my first visit there back in 1997. I love the food, the culture, the pretty girls, the weather, the pace of life, the diversity of locales (from the islands and beaches in the south like Koh Phangan to metropolitan Bangkok to the mountains in the north) and the fact that everything is fairly close.

The fact that I now have a Thai wife is of course a huge deciding factor, since she wants to be back with her friends and family. Even so, I’m certain I would be planning the move if I was still single, in fact I probably would have made it already.

Other things that have factored into my decision is the lower cost of living in Thailand, the availability of western foods and medical care (compared to other SE Asian countries), the freedom of life in Thailand compared with the West and the adventure factor of the whole move.

When did you first release your desire to live in Thailand full time?

I believe it was first released when I started Thailand Musings (the blog) back in September of 2006.

How often do you visit Thailand as an expat?

As I said earlier I have been coming to Thailand since 1997. Some years it is once and some years more. I haven’t kept count, but I’m sure I’ve made a couple dozen trips over the years and have probably spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 18-24 months in Thailand total.

Recently we haven’t been back in almost 18 months due to Golf’s pregnancy and our attempts to save enough to make the move full time. At this point it doesn’t look as if we will return until we are ready to make the move and that currently looks to be sometime in 2011.

It's clear you are carefully planning your move as proven when you went public with your estimation of start-up costs for moving to Bangkok late last year with this post. Has your thinking, and/or the figures involved, changed since initially writing the post?

My thinking hasn’t changed much since writing that post as I am still carefully planning the move, our expenses for the move and our monthly income/budget once we make the move. If anything I have become more detailed with this planning since the birth of our daughter.

One thing that has changed is the figures for the move. At the time I proposed US$90,000 as the amount we would like to have in the bank prior to moving. I would still love to have that amount before moving as it would simplify some aspects of the move, but Golf and I have come to an understanding that somewhere between $30-40,000 will be sufficient. Obviously we will have to give up some things and compromise on others, but ultimately we both feel that we will be happier making the move earlier with less money than waiting until we have more.

You mentioned that you would consider working as a teacher whilst freelancing. Many expats living in Thailand feel 'stuck' in teaching or are seeking extra money - for their reference can you explain exactly what you mean by freelancing and the kind of money you believe you can make doing it?

When I say ‘freelancing’ I’m referring to all of the possible online avenues to income (and there are many). Much of my current savings and expendable income comes from the websites I own and those same sites should provide enough for us to live on in Thailand. The whole question of whether or not to teach for me comes down to how much money does one need to be happy? I mean I’m currently making about $2000 a month from the website so obviously that would be enough to live on and save a small bit, but the extra $1000 a month from teaching would go a long way in Thailand.

So, I have the websites which earn money primarily from advertising and affiliate commissions. That’s one way to go if you are looking to create a passive income stream. I also do some freelance writing on occasion for several sites. Although I’m not crazy about this, it does provide a nice additional income and if I were to pursue it 8 hours a day it would pay as well as teaching English in Bangkok. You can get started with freelance writing at a lot of different sites, but the ones I’ve used successfully are oDesk and a small content provider site called The Content Authority. oDesk is an auction type format so it takes a bit of effort to build a portfolio and client base there and initially you’ll get paid peanuts. The Content Authority pays based on your writing skill and it’s not too difficult for a native English speaker with decent writing ability to get to the point where you’re making $0.015/word which is not great, but enough to make it worthwhile if you can write fairly fast.

Depending on your skill set and interests there are also plenty of opportunities to make money through programming, graphic design, web design, search engine optimization and many other skills that are not necessarily location dependant. While I don’t freelance in any of these areas myself, it does appear that the pay is better than that of a freelance writer, so if you have skills in these areas you may want to look into it. In most of these cases it does take some time to get traction, but once you have a handle on where to get your customers it can work well as a side income and even as your entire income, depending on your needs.

At this point I do not expect to need to teach, the combination of my online pursuits and Golf’s employment should cover our expenses quite well.

You recent had a baby girl (congratulations again!) which is one of your main motivations for moving to Thailand. Why do you feel your daughter will benefit from living in Thailand as opposed to the USA? Which, ironically, is a country where, ironically, many Thais would like to reside in.

Yes it is quite ironic isn’t it? None of Golf’s Thai friends here in the U.S. have any plans or desires to return to Thailand except to visit. Apparently the U.S. is still seen as the land of milk and honey for many. I wonder if they would feel the same if they felt they could move back to Thailand and keep a U.S. type salary?

First off, let me say that as an American I am very proud of my country and the people who live here. I know we get painted as villains and bullies throughout some parts (much?) of the world, however these things that cause so much hatred towards the country are the result of the decisions of a small majority (government) of the country.

That being said, I personally am not happy with the direction the country has been taking over the past decade or so. Costs for everything are rising, jobs are disappearing, health care is turning into a shambles, taxes are on the upswing (and no end in sight there) and ironically the “land of freedom” is losing more and more freedoms every time you turn around.

Add to this the death of the family in the U.S. and the lack of compassion and respect that I see, especially among much of the youth and I feel that an upbringing in a country such as Thailand will be superior in terms of family connection and possibly even financial reward.

Let’s face it, Asia as a whole is definitely on an upswing in terms of growth and I don’t see this changing anytime soon. Thailand has China as one of its major trade partners and this should be very beneficial for the country for a long time to come. The world that my daughter will live in is not the same world that I grew up in and I hope to give her the opportunity to be able to choose between West and East, which is really only possible if she grows up In Thailand. If it turns out that I am wrong it will be easier for her to come back to America for University and a career than it will be for her to move to Thailand if she was raised in the States.

In the past you've mentioned that you have children from a previous relationship. There are many expatriates in Thailand that are in the same boat, how does being far far from other children weigh on your mind?

Actually the children are now 13 and 15, so in all likelihood they will be nearly adults once we make the move. So, being so far away from them doesn’t weigh on my mind much. In reality I am hoping I can get them over to Thailand for an extended period to expand their horizons and give them a view of the world outside their sheltered U.S. existence and upbringing.

Currently the older boy is totally on board with coming to visit for an extended time, the younger not as much, but that could simply be a function of his age. It could (and I hope it does) change once he is older.

Thailand is somewhat more stable now, though as long-term observers are aware political feuds do not easily disappear in the country as it seems current tensions may flare up again. How the current political situation and recent events in Bangkok - the city you are planning to move to - affect your decision to emigrate to Thailand?

Honestly it didn’t affect us much at all. The recent events were contained to a small area of the city and most of the people we know that live in Bangkok were completely unaffected by the turmoil. Thailand as a country has a history of many coups so it isn’t like much has changed.

Considering the portability of my income we could always head north to Chiang Mai if Bangkok became destabilized for a long period of time, which is not likely in my opinion.

Have you begun tackling the Thai language given that you’re planning to move out here? If so what techniques have you used and with what success? If not yet, how are you planning to approach the issue?

I have not begun tackling the language issue yet. I have a very rudimentary understanding of Thai at this point, but I do pick up languages pretty quickly when immersed. Golf and I have the agreement that as long as we are in the U.S. she will focus on learning English (which she has done incredibly well) and once we move to Thailand I will focus on learning Thai. It made sense because here she has plenty of people to practice with and there I will have plenty of people to practice with.

I plan on enrolling in a language school to begin my study of Thai and may supplement that with private lessons initially to get up to speed as quickly as possible. Once I get to the intermediate stage I believe it will simply be a matter of practice, practice, practice.

Do you have any additional advice for those considering a full-time move to Thailand?

Be sure that you have the resources, financial, emotional and psychological, necessary to deal with living in a country that is vastly different from your own. Make a plan for your move, but keep in mind that it is quite likely you will need to adapt that plan once the move is made, sometimes dramatically and sometimes frequently. Keep an open mind and be adaptable.

My thanks Steve who turned around these answers very quickly.

There is certainly a lot of interesting content here. One thing that certainly strikes me about him is he is a meticulous planner who certainly knows what he wants - perhaps the polar opposite to myself, it takes all sorts after all.

Good luck with the plans Steve, look forward to reading with great interest how the savings/budgeting is going over on your blog.

Moving to Thailand: Martyn, Beyond The Mango Juice

As follow-up to last week’s Q&A with Talen, from Thailand, Land of the Smiles, we have a new soon-to-be expat in the hot seat.

Using himself as a live human guinea pig for aspiring birds looking to fly south and settle in Thailand, he are the experiences and opinions from a top blogger...Martyn, aka Hoo Don, from Beyond The Mango Juice – another Thailand blog which comes hugely recommended from yours truly.

The man himself, Leo beer in hand

You are living in the UK at present but with aspirations of moving to Thailand. What is it that makes you want to move to Thailand? 

I've been travelling to Thailand for over ten years and fell in love with the country on my first trip, first day is probably the truth. I love the easy laid back way of life in the Land of Smiles and the warm sunshine is a huge bonus too. I'd be lying if I said money doesn't come into it because it does, even at today's poor exchange rate my UK pound still has a lot of value to me in Thailand.

Why are you waiting to rather than moving to Thailand straight away? 

Money. Quite simply I don't have enough savings or equity in my property to make any move long term. When I do spread my wings and fly I want it to be forever and one day more. The thought of returning to England years later with no money and having to find work at say 60 years of age frightens me. Being skint with lots of wrinkles is really scary.

Do you have a plan or timeline for making the big move? 

I have a stock answer instead of a plan. In about three years time. Ask me the same question next week, next year, in two years time and I'll give you the same stock answer. When I do make the move I think it's going to be a spur of the moment decision. Wham, bam, here I go. I've always been a gambler and I'm currently trying to load the dice in my favour, believe me one day I'm going to throw them.

‘Wham bam’ was very much the approach the missus and I took when moving over from London, though a rough plan had been in place for a while. Has served us well to date...I’m not much of a planner whereas she is a woman.

When did you first realize your wanted to live in Thailand full time? 

Literally from day one, when fit young women chase you down the road screaming 'sexy man' it kind of makes your mind up.  

I’ve never been chased down the road (ladyboys not included), am I living in the wrong place? Well given I’m a (happily) taken man we can safely same I’m in the right place. Or perhaps just not chaseable?

How often do you visit Thailand? 

Three times a year. Generally April or May, every September and Christmas. I have had extended stays in Thailand in the past of a couple of months and my longest stay was four months. Nowadays work commitments allow me a total of about 7-8 weeks in Thailand each year. 

Do you have plans to work whilst living in Thailand? If not how do you plan to support you and Wi? 

I would love to find work in Thailand but basically I haven't got the skills they require. I have thought about taking a TEFL course and teaching English but I believe you need a university degree to legally teach English in Thailand. That's something I haven't got and I really can't see any other work opportunities for me out there. 

To support myself and Wonderful Wi I would need savings and income from renting out my property once the mortgage has been paid off. Putting a question like that to me makes me wonder if I'll ever make it to Thailand full time. You bastard (joking). 

Frustrating though it may be, the rental income approach is a proven one which a few people I know use to supplement additional incomes. Worth the wait in gold...or, indeed, Thai Baht.

Martyn and his other half Wi

Do you have any advice for those considering a full-time move to Thailand? 

My advice is in one of my previous answers and that's simply make sure you have enough money to survive until you reach a good old age. And one day more. 

Given the recent political turmoil in Thailand, which has claimed more than sixty lives, do you find yourself reconsidering your decision to move to Thailand? 

My move is a few years away but if it was next week then I'd try to rebook the flight for tomorrow. The current crisis which is suffocating Thailand has been building to a head for a number of years and so I have weighted that into my thoughts for a long time now. The UK government issued a warning not to travel to Thailand shortly before my trip this month but I knew I'd be 100% safe and that proved to be the case. Most countries have their own threat of 'terrorism' and I consider Thailand's scenario to be a lesser threat that most other countries, and that includes the UK. 

Give me a half decent pension and as the song says 'I'll be there.'

A big thanks (and good luck with planning) for Martyn for these responses from a while back. This post was delayed so long it began to rival an ASEAN summit meeting.

As stated last week, this interviews serve to answer of one most frequently asked questions (to me, at least) – “should I move to Thailand” – all responses and discussions are therefore welcome.

Moving to Thailand: Talen, Thailand, Land Of Smiles

Over the course of blogging here at JF I get a fair amount of feedback from people considering moving to Thailand.

If I move to Thailand what job can I do? Is it nice living outside of Bangkok? What about my children? It safe to live in Thailand? Is there hot water? Have you ever been bitten by a snake? The list goes on.

My answer is always the same - I can't possible tell you if you should move to Thailand, it depends on personal circumstances.

In the past I've recommended reading blogs in Thailand as they are often excellent sources of information. Bloggers covers many issues of life here, the good, the bad (the ugly?), regularly reading a number of blogs can help paint a picture of what life in Thailand *could be*...but again, it really depends on each individual.

This post is the first of two combining typical 'moving to Thailand questions' with the wealth of knowledge and experience in the Thai blogosphere.

I've asked a few questions to two bloggers who are planning a big move to Thailand. If you're making, considering the move yourself their opinions may be of interest.

So first up here is Talen from Thailand, Land Of Smiles.

The man behind the hugely popular (and recommended) Thailand, Land Of Smiles blog, Talen.

You are living in the USA at present but with aspirations of moving to Thailand. What is it that makes you want to move to Thailand?

Everything! The weather, food, culture and definitely the beautiful women. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I definitely feel like a better version of me when in Thailand. I can't put a finger on it but I think it has a lot to do with learning about and exploring the country. It's all so new and crisp and there is always something around every corner to delve into.

Why are you waiting to rather than moving to Thailand straight away?

Originally I was going to make the move to Thailand 2 years ago but my mother became ill and soon passed away followed by my father's cancer returning. So, my plans were put on hold while I helped to take care of my parents.

Do you have a plan or timeline for making the big move?

My father just recently passed away and as soon as the family takes care of the last of the estate issues I'll be leaving for Thailand. I'm hoping to hit the ground sometime in late July or early August.

When did you first release your desire to live in Thailand full time?

Right after my second trip to Thailand in 2007.

My first trip was great but that was the first vacation I had in a very long time so I spent most of my time in bars. The second trip I really started to see the country and the cultural aspects of Thailand and I just knew this was the place I wanted to be.

I was talking about Thailand so much to anyone that would listen that I had to start the blog so I wouldn't keep annoying people.

How often do you visit Thailand?

Aside from the past year I had been going to Thailand at least every six months since my first visit in 2006.

Talen and his other half Pookie

Do you have plans to work whilst living in Thailand? If not how do you plan to support you and your partner, Pookie, in LOS?

I've saved a nice nest egg to get me going and have been building a blogging empire (joke), But I do have a few blogs going that are starting to turn a decent profit that I am hoping I can live off of in the future.

If all else fails I can always be the second or third falang Kathoey to shake my stuff around Pattaya :)

Hmmm...lets hope this doesn't inspire anyone, Talen.

Do you have any advice for those considering a full-time move to Thailand?

Definitely do your homework and make sure this is something you really want to do. Visit Thailand as much as possible and for as long as possible before you make the move so you understand what you are getting into.

The language barrier and cultural differences are a big stumbling block for many would be expats. I've spent a good bit of time up country in Issan as well as the more traveled areas of Bangkok and Pattaya and I have yet to run into anything that would put me off...including cold showers and squat toilets in Mukdahan.

Also keep in mind that while a lot of things like food and shelter in Thailand are very cheap by western standards there will be other expenses that won't be and shouldn't be neglected like health insurance, visa's and car or motorbike insurance if you live anywhere that isn't easily accessible to public transportation.

Another thing to consider is having a bailout plan. You never know whats going to happen with the government and visa rules have a way of changing quickly in Thailand.

With the events of the last few months, I posed an additional question which is probably going through the mind of anyone considering a visit to Thailand, let alone coming to live here.

Given the recent political turmoil in Thailand, which has claimed more than sixty lives, do you find yourself reconsidering your decision to move to Thailand?

Not in the slightest. Knowing I will be living in Red shirt country might add an air of danger, considering some of the conversations I have been having with Pookie over the last few weeks, but I don't think that I would

be worried about my personal safety at all. Besides I just got a new DSLR and I'm itching for some good pictures.

With the protests now all across the northeast it might give me a better perspective on the ground even though I have very real doubts about the UDD leadership.  In all seriousness though I really hope for Thailand's sake that the worst is behind us and somehow the people can move forward and repair the damage somehow and get back to being known for the smiles instead of the violence.

A big thank you to Talen. My condolences for your recent losses, I'm with you that right now family is one of the few things that would move me and the family back in the UK. In time, we shall see though.

Good luck with the packing and planning, Talen.

Check back later to this week to see which blogger's answers are part 2 of this mini-series.


UPDATE: By "later this week", I in fact mean next week (tease) as tomorrow is Friday already. My excuse? Am in Malaysia on a extended break, somewhat out of sync from the norm.